Friday, 4 December 2009

Biblical Work

Prof Paul Stevens - Dean of Regents College Vancouver

defines 'kingdom work' as something like this:

Activity that creates new wealth, alleviates poverty, embellishes and improves human life, creates well being in nature, seek's to bring in God's shalom, welcomes Go's life-giving rule in the world and in people

what is wrong with this ?

and how would you define it?


M.A.C. said...


I hope you don't mind answering a couple of questions I am asking all believers everywhere;

Do you believe that God sent His only Son Jesus Christ to start a new religion called Christianity?

And Where is the text in the bible that supports the popular Christian belief that God sent His only Son Jesus Christ to start a new religion called Christianity?

yemsee said...


Looks like your doing an interesting project =)

No.. Christianity is not a new religion...
It was the plan of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit from before the foundation of the world - to send His Son to die on the cross - so that He might be the first of many brothers - in an eternal home with our Father in heaven

Bible text? how about the entire Scriptures!

M.A.C. said...

Hi yemsee,

I hope you don't mind continuing this dialogue.

What are your thoughts on denominational divergence in the body of Christ today?

Consider; Matthew 7

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Sounds like Jesus is talking about church folk here. What do you think?

yemsee said...

I'm not sure the verse you quoted fits in with the 'denominational divergence' in church

the church in the NT - as the Reformers would say - is compromised of the visible and invisible church - those who follow Christ merely by profession, and those from the heart

even in the different denominations there would be genuine believers and those who are not

denominations arise from differences in doctrines- primarily those based on the works of the Holy Spirit - ironically enough - since He's supposed to be the Source of all unity amongst the global body of Christ

M.A.C. said...


The point is not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven even though they may do some amazing things.

If we as Christian beings with Christ as our center have not repented from sin we will be refused entry by the King of Kings Lord of Lords.

The bottom line is denominational divergence is sin and sin must be repented of in order to secure salvation. Is that not true?

yemsee said...

Yes of course.. because at the end of Matthew 7 the point is not all the things we do for Him (or so we think) - but the real relationship we have with Him - by knowing Him and doing what He says

yes it is also true that denominations all arise out of our own sinful prejudices in reading the Scriptures - but i'm not sure if you actually understand repentance

then you would have to 'repent' of every single sin you are committing (most of which you do not know about) at a constant rate before you can be saved...

perhaps you would like to read about the life story of Martin Luther

M.A.C. said...


Repentance means to be penitent in attitude, to turn from sin and leave it behind you.

1 Corinthians 1 states that the problem of status over preference for religious leaders was based on their superior wisdom. I'm smarter because Paul baptized me and so forth.

The problem of denominational divergence has gotten completely out of control today. And is based on the same problem. One man thinks he's superior to another.

Meanwhile the gospel has to do with Jesus Christ and our allegiance as believers belongs to Christ alone not denominational parties.

I am solicitous towards denominations and would not like to see anyone who professes Christ be condemned.

yemsee said...

yup i agree with you that a lot of denominations come out of self-interest

but there is also another category in 1 Corinthians that says 'I follow Christ' - or the non-denomination people

which in fact just becomes another denomination

the solution is not merely to terminate all denominations
but to work through things until real unity in Christ can be achieved - which requires true humility

M.A.C. said...


I agree that we cannot terminate all denominations. Revelations talks of seven churches with only two standing above reproach. I believe that most denominations fall into one of these seven unless they are a cult.

The Persecuted Church and The Faithful Church are beyond reproach. The rest are instructed to repent or at least come back to the gospel. While one is completely dead.

My mission is to exhort churches to repent for the final day of the coming of Christ.

After all what comes first in the believers life repentance or salvation?

yemsee said...

Well.. yes of course we need to strive for unity

but i think that first starts from us - the way to unite a church or churches is to live such a godly life - that it is apparent that we know Jesus - and draws others into the true gospel community

arguments and dissensions and 'spiritual one-upmanship' never solves anything - even if that seems to be an "I follow Christ" method

if by our lives people see an authenticity in us that they cannot deny - and more so if in our entire church - then there will be unity formed around the Real Jesus - and as Jesus promised - all men will know we are His disicples

M.A.C. said...


That is why the church needs to be challenged.

If I submit to Christ does that not make me a subversive element to the earthly realm?

Am I born again as a spiritual being an alien of the earth?

So why do I need a tax free number?

Why do I need a label?

He whom is set free by Jesus Christ is free indeed...But only if if you believe it.

yemsee said...

I'm not sure what you mean by tax free number

yes we are citizens of the heavenly Zion - but are asked to be voluntarily subject to earthly authorities and powers for the sake that we may win them over by submission and gentleness
- the way of Jesus